Interview with Dr. Lara Honos-Webb, Author of Listening to Depression

~ HOW CAN A PERSON USE THEIR DEPRESSION TO CHANGE THEIR LIFE, INSTEAD OF BEING RENDERED POWERLESS BY THE EXPERIENCE? ~

If you can translate your depression into a message that you need to make some changes and set out to discover precisely what those changes are, your depression may prepare you for a dramatic transformation. One of the most common transformations I see is in women whose depression guides them to take care of themselves, putting self-care BEFORE taking care of everyone else. Depression makes it impossible to meet everyone’s else’s needs and demands on you. Healing from depression involves taking Depression’s “I can’t” and gaining the skills to say “I won’t.” Specifically, that might mean, “I won’t volunteer for every project I’m invited to”,” I won’t run my kids to 3 different activities a week, I’ll limit each child to one activity at a time”, or “I won’t let family members rely on me to organize all family holidays and activities.”

~ WHAT CAN DEPRESSION TEACH A PERSON ABOUT THEMSELVES, WHAT IS DEPRESSION OFTEN A SIGNAL OF, AND WHAT MESSAGE DOES DEPRESSION OFTEN HOLD THAT SHOULD BE LISTENED TO? ~

Depression often guides a person to let his or her life be guided by pleasure, presence, power and permission.

1. Increase Pleasure. So many times depression is a call to re-enter life—instead of just going through the motions. Instead of focusing all your time on performance demands—which ultimately is one-sided and draining—be sure to give yourself a few simple pleasures, like browsing in bookstores, walking with a friend, playing with your child or bicycling.
2. Presence. Make a point of being present in the moment each day. It’s the difference between being and doing--performing.3. Power. Power reminds us to be the author of our own life. I call this re-writing the rules. For example, women often think motherhood has to be a sacrifice, but there’s power in making authentic choices instead of simply conforming to a life that doesn’t work for you.
4. Permission. Practice giving yourself permission to see life a different way. For example, some of us have to learn that life doesn’t have to be a struggle ( despite our past experiences.) The future doesn’t have to be a repeat of the past. Give yourself permission to explore something, or simply to be happy (despite others who want to draw you into the misery-loves-company conversation.

~ IN YOUR BOOK, YOU SHARED SOME VERY INTERESTING METAPHORS FOR DEPRESSION, INCLUDING "THE FLY BANGING AGAINST A WINDOW." COULD YOU SHARE HOW THIS METAPHOR WITH US AND EXPLAIN HOW IT RELATES TO UNDERSTANDING DEPRESSION? ~

Many times we try bulldozing through long standing problems rather that taking some time out and reflecting on alternative approaches. In the metaphor of the fly, I recounted a story of watching a fly try to get out a car window that was closed by repeatedly banging its head against the window. If it would have paused and looked around it might have noticed the window on the other side of the car was open. Depression literally stops us in our tracks. We feel like we can’t go on, and often don’t have the energy to keep moving forward. This might be a good thing, if the time-out causes to look at our problems from another angle. In one story, a man spent years doing everything he could to win the affections of a woman. Finally, in the agony of a depression he realized that he didn’t need another trick another accomplishment to impress her, he needed to let her go. The realization changed his life from pursuing someone who was not at all interested and also healed his depression.

~ WHILE DEPRESSION CAN BE A GREAT TEACHER AND REVEALER OF WHAT WE ARE TRULY FEELING, IT CAN ALSO BE EXCRUCIATINGLY PAINFUL AND DEBILITATING. HOW CAN A PERSON LEARN FROM THEIR DEPRESSION WHEN PERHAPS THEY ARE IN GREAT AND OVERWHELMING EMOTIONAL PAIN? HOW CAN THEY LISTEN TO THEIR DEPRESSION WHEN PERHAPS OVERWHELMED BY THIS PAIN? ~

Depression feels like all the lights have gone out. When the lights are out, the only thing you can see is that which is lit from within. And that which is lit from within is your life purpose. When we are not in pain we may not be able to figure out what our purpose and passion are because so many things are interesting to us. In the depth of emotional pain, many times there is only thing that keeps us going, and usually that is related to your purpose in life. There is a story in Listening to Depression (Honos-Webb 2006) about a young man, Jamie who in the darkest moments of his depression realized he always wanted to be a comic book illustrator. Before he thought it was a silly idea, but in his depression he realized it was the only thing that was meaningful to him and he transformed his life because of that insight he gained.

~ WHILE DEPRESSION CAN BE A SIGNAL OR WAKE-UP CALL FOR CHANGE IN ONE'S LIFE, SOMETIMES A PERSON IS DEPRESSED OVER SITUATIONS THEY CANNOT CHANGE, SUCH AS GRIEVING THE LOSS OF A LOVED ONE, GOING THROUGH AN UNWANTED DIVORCE OR LOSING A BELOVED JOB. HOW CAN DEPRESSION BE A TEACHING TOOL WHEN THE ROOT CAUSE IS NOT SOMETHING THAT CAN BE FIXED OR REMEDIED? ~

Deep depression from loss takes us on a journey. How do we ever recover from the loss of a loved one, of losing our home, livelihood, or health? Finding meaning in a tragic loss is essential if you are to recover. For example, I have a story about a woman who survived a car crash caused by a drunk driver, in which her parents and sister were killed. She brought that tragic loss into her life purpose and became a lawyer and an inspiring public speaker about drunk driving. Sometimes these events are, mysteriously, a stepping stone to revealing a life purpose.

I have an exercise in Listening to Depression (New Harbinger Publications, 2006) where I invite readers to consider the question: ‘’ If this mistake or event was meant to be guidance or open up something new, where do you see it taking you? Let the mystery of your imaginative process help you listen to your depression.

~ HOW IS OVEREATING CONNECTED TO DEPRESSION? WHY IS THIS BEHAVIOR SO DIFFICULT TO STOP? ~

Many people overeat to mask their feelings of depression. It is so hard to stop because once you stop overeating you feel the depression. Therefore, emotionally it is punishing to stop overeating. Applying my approach to depression to the problem of overeating, you find that overeating is a way of keeping you stuck. If you overeat you won’t see the changes that depression is guiding you to make. A common example is a woman who is in an emotionally abusive relationship. She overeats to hide her anger and need for self-assertion or ending the relationship. The more she overeats the longer she stays in an unhealthy relationship. So overeating masks depression and also the underlying problems that need to be healed.

~ IN YOUR OPINION, WHAT ARE THE FIVE GREATEST GIFTS DEPRESSION CAN OFFER? ~

1. Depression propels you on a search for the meaning of your life
2. Depression is nature’s way of pushing you out of your comfort zone. Depression reminds you that you are losing your life while you are not risking.
3. Depression is a breakdown in the service of offering you an opportunity for a breakthrough.
4. Depression means its time to reclaim your power to author your own life.
5. Depression alerts you when you have gotten off course and guides you toward self-healing.

~ YOU WRITE THAT HAVING A POSITIVE EXPLANATION FOR ONE'S DEPRESSION CAN HELP THE HEALING PROCESS. CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THIS MEANS, AND HOW CAN A PERSON CAN GO ABOUT FINDING A POSITIVE EXPLANATION FOR THEIR DEPRESSION? ~

Depression can be seen as a break-down in the service of offering the person an opportunity for a break-through. In this way depression can be a corrective feedback to a life with little reflection.

We only reflect on those things that break down in our life. For example, if life is going along smoothly you won’t spend time thinking about the meaning of your life. We tend to think deeply about life when something is not working. When we identify a problem, we begin to reflect on what caused the problem and how to fix the problem. If you are disconnected from your deepest feelings and impulses you may still manage to get through life without realizing it.

But if you begin to open to the possibility that there was something fundamentally wrong with your level of functioning before your depression, only then does the idea of depression as a gift begin to make sense. A breakdown can become a gift when it is in the service of increasing reflection on your life which will lead you to ask the fundamentally important questions:
What is wrong with my life?
What can I do to correct the problem? When you listen to your depression, you can heal your life.

~ HOW IS YOUR APPROACH TO DEPRESSION DIFFERENT THAN MOST PSYCHOTHERAPISTS? HOW DO YOU HELP YOUR PATIENTS OVERCOME AND HEAL FROM THEIR DEPRESSION? ~

In our work together I help clients find their sweet spot – where their passion meets their purpose. Usually this is the cure from depression. Most therapists help clients stop negative emotions. I help clients find joy by finding and focusing on their gifts. Most other approaches find weaknesses, focus on where those weaknesses came from and patch up those weaknesses. I think depression is often a way of telling people they are not living from their greatest gifts.

In “Sweet Spot therapy”, the focus is seeing with the eyes of what a person is supposed to be, rather than returning them back to a state of not complaining about their previous normal level of functioning. A person’s sweet spot is where her passion meets her purpose. Sweet Spot therapy involves focusing almost entirely on helping a person find her sweet spot. My observation is that many symptoms are a cry from a person’s most authentic self to align herself with her sweet spot.

~ WHY IS IT IMPORTANT FOR A PERSON TO BE AWARE OF ANY SECONDARY GAINS FROM THEIR DEPRESSION? HOW CAN A PERSON UNCOVER THE HIDDEN BENEFITS OF BEING DEPRESSED THAT MIGHT BE KEEPING THEM STUCK? ~

A person should be aware of secondary gains from being depressed – such as it gives me an excuse not to do things I don’t have the courage to say “no” to – so that they gain the motivation to seek treatment for the depression. One way to uncover the hidden benefits is to ask yourself “If I woke up tomorrow and a miracle occurred and I was no longer depressed, what would I feel like?” Many people find areas where they are uncomfortable with such a healing and can figure out how the depression has some benefits they didn’t realize.

~ YOU WRITE THAT "ONE OF THE POSSIBLE GIFTS OF DEPRESSION IS THE TRANSFORMATION THAT ALLOWS YOU TO BECOME THE DOMINANT AUTHORITY IN YOUR OWN LIFE." CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT? HOW CAN DEPRESSION GIVE A PERSON ACCESS TO THEIR OWN INTERNAL POWER? ~

Stop Asking:
Who is to blame?What did I do to deserve this?
What’s wrong with me?

For a quick adjustment to overcome any tendency to punish yourself, ask yourself the following questions:
Am I OK?What do I need?
How can I comfort myself?

Depression is a wake-up call to bring our life into alignment with our own needs, values and desires. How do people get off track in the first place?

1. Operating from a sense of loyalty. While loyalty allows people to belong and feel connected, it could hamper our individual choices. Think of people who just slide into a family business because it’s there. If you are depressed, notice where you might be conforming in order not to rock the boat. To get back on track, differentiate between how you genuinely agree with your family or social milieu, and where your dreams and interests are different..
2. Not believing in yourself.. Many people feel they are not “good enough” to go for their dreams. For example, someone may want to be a doctor, but comes from a working class family. The message from their parents and milieu might be, ‘Who do you think you are?’ Adding unconscious loyalty to self-doubt builds a powerful justification for not going further than their parents or friends.
3. Lack of reflection. If we never take time to ask ourselves what we really want, or to notice how we may be different from those in our upbringing, we never take time to get on track.
4. Need for security. Is our choice of career based solely on the financial reward? We build real security by investing in ourselves, learning new things, and being willing to take on new challenges.
5. Fear of the unknown. To move past fear, we have to have a compelling reason to move forward—such as, a creative urge that won’t go away, a desire to have our own business, or an urge to live according to our own values. If those compelling urges are suppressed, depression follows. If we don’t listen to our inner voice, we sink deeper into depression, or even find that we have an accident or illness that amplifies the message that something has to change.

~ IF A PERSON CAME TO YOU AND SAID THEY HAVE BEEN DEPRESSED FOR SO LONG, THEY DIDN'T THINK THEY COULD EVER NOT BE DEPRESSED, WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE THEM? WHAT COULD THEY DO TO BREAK A CYCLE THAT MAY HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR DECADES? ~

I would tell this person that it is true that depression can become a bad habit. If you have been depressed for a long time, you may encounter the obstacle that you forgot what it feels like to be not depressed. Paradoxically, healing from depression may be uncomfortable to you because it may represent new territory for you. In this way, depression becomes like a habit, and may be hard to break. One way to prepare for this obstacle is to remind yourself that you deserve to be free from this habit and that you would rather be afraid than depressed. Even positive changes will bring with them fear and a sense of losing control. As you bring awareness to the threat of changing your life, the choice you would make between comfortable depression and the unknown will be obvious.

One obstacle to healing from depression happens when a person grows up in a family where parents or siblings were significantly depressed. It can happen that in a person’s attachment to a parent or sibling who is depressed, that he identifies with the loved one through the feelings of depression. If this is the case, than letting go of the depression is terribly threatening because it may feel like letting go of the person. For example, women who are depressed and had depressed mothers may use the depression as a means of maintaining their sense of connection to their mothers and feel that they are abandoning their mothers by letting go of the depression. The best way to confront this obstacle is to be aware of it and consider if it applies to you. If you have a depressed relative that you are deeply attached to, you may want to confront this obstacle by telling yourself that the best thing you can give to others is to make your own life work. Your happiness is always a gift to those who care deeply for you.